Curse

Yukito Kunisaki · Jun 20, 2005, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Bah, I bring Victory is Mine for all my healing needs. Not just that but it lets me DO MORE DISRUPTION! [making 3 warriors weak for 15s. each is heaven for healers

]

I say if you're going to bring a healing skill though you're supposed to be dealing damage, make sure it's just enough to BARELY get the job done. Unless you have an elite healing skill...

Grenth's Balance, Life Transfer, Word of Healing, etc.

Then that SHOULD be all you'll ever need ^_^

Kishin · Jun 20, 2005, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aalric

I have no idea where you read that you should not take self-healing, but I think that it is a stupid idea. Very often, monks in your goup do not heal, get the timing right, or simply might not have the energy at the moment. Which means that you die. And, quite frankly, though people love to pretend otherwise, it's your own fault. Shouting at the monks will get you no-where. You need to be able to heal yourself whenever you feel like it.

No, if a Monk can't get their timing right, they're a bad Monk, and if they can't heal, they're a Protection Monk (where the same issues arise ie. If you can't time a Protective Spirit right, you need to work on that) or a Smiter (In which case their role is entirely different). .

You DO NOT need to be able to heal yourself whenever you feel like it, and honestly, you aren't capable of it. As Spark pointed out, doing your job and shutting down/killing the enemy damage dealers goes a whole lot more to taking the pressure off a monk. Furthermore, there is the possibility that a monk will go to heal you just as you activate your self heal, and then congratulations, you've caused your Monk to waste energy, which is a capital offense.

Glasswalker · Jun 21, 2005, 12:09 AM // 00:09

More often than not, if someone dies in battle it is because they ran outside the monks protective radius and got hammered. This is not the monk's fault (no I don't play monk). On the other hand, I'm not going to go giving that kind of idiot tips to survive -- I will just recommend not calling the monk a noob for not following you across the battlefield like a squire

.

This doesn't apply to most classes, but as a N/R, the self-heal I take along is also a damage dealer. I love Vampiric Gaze. When a warrior thinks he can just finish off the Necro who is down to about nothing, and finds himself dying instead (plus I'm stronger than before), man is that delicious. And when playing with my guildmate W/N, and he hits me with Blood Ritual at the beginning of a match, I cast Serpent's Quickness and practically spam Vampiric Gaze.

My monk knows he can pretty much ignore me because I can take care of myself -- freeing him up to heal you or just regen energy. And, yes, I still do my job.

Spark · Jun 21, 2005, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Quote:

Very often, monks in your goup do not heal, get the timing right, or simply might not have the energy at the moment.

And why does everyone think healing is the only way to accomplish anything?

Obviously we should just have everyone */Mo and bring Orison of Healing ftw?

No. There are proactive ways to heal yourself. For example, a dead elementalist does no damage. If you coordinate your offense to take out an Elementalist and Mesmer first, guess what, you've saved yourself from a lot of damage! Much more than your retarded Aura of Restoration would heal you.

Everyone say it with me:

"Aura of Resoration is bad! Troll Unguent is bad! Mending is bad!"

There is a REASON you bring monks. They should ALWAYS be able to heal you if everyone is doing their job.

Common things that stop monks from healing:

a) Mesmer is locking down the monk
Bad Solution: Everyone bring heals! That way everyone is a back up monk! (And noone does damage)
Good Solution: Kill/lockdown the mesmer!

b)Elementalists are spiking people left and right
Bad Solution: See above
Good Solution: Kill/lockdown the elementalist!

c) Warrior is keeping our monk on his butt!
Bad Solution: See above
Good Solution: Blind and weaken the warrior! Or use wards!

Everyone thinks that when people die its because they didn't get enough healing. This is false, more often than not it is the fault of the offense for not getting first blood and snowballing onto their team.

This is the problem I see with many groups. The healing is GREAT, but the offense just can't take down targets and eventually you just can't keep up and people start dying.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Jun 21, 2005, 01:32 AM // 01:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ollj

i read yout starting post till the phrase "damage dealers" then all i could do is laught at you.

"Yout" should learn to type/spell before you "laught" at people. Also, at least put in a worthwhile post other than the worthless crap you posted.

Back to the topic. I don't know why some people are equating all self heals to Aura of Restoration. There are better self heals if used correctly.

Also, it's pretty idiotic to think that people will be doing damage 100% of the time even without self heals. There will be times where you're blinded, crippled, or some of your skills have been disrupted and shut down or pacified, etc etc and you just can't do any damage during that time. So that's the perfect time to heal yourself if needed.

I don't care how good your monks are they can't take care of all your needs. Bottom line is that you can bring a good self heal and still be able to do your job and lessen the burden on your monk. The key is to know when to use your self heal even if they are "less efficient" than monk heals.

Eclair · Jun 21, 2005, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

"Yout" should learn to type/spell before you "laught" at people. Also, at least put in a worthwhile post other than the worthless crap you posted.

Back to the topic. I don't know why some people are equating all self heals to Aura of Restoration. There are better self heals if used correctly.

Also, it's pretty idiotic to think that people will be doing damage 100% of the time even without self heals. There will be times where you're blinded, crippled, or some of your skills have been disrupted and shut down or pacified, etc etc and you just can't do any damage during that time. So that's the perfect time to heal yourself if needed.

I don't care how good your monks are they can't take care of all your needs. Bottom line is that you can bring a good self heal and still be able to do your job and lessen the burden on your monk.

Or...instead of bringing some crappy self heal you could bring a condition remover or a hex remover, which allows you to go right back into damage dealing. Condition/Hex remover > any self heal.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Jun 21, 2005, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eclair

Or...instead of bringing some crappy self heal you could bring a condition remover or a hex remover, which allows you to go right back into damage dealing. Condition/Hex remover > any self heal.

Ummm and all classes have condition/hex removers? Warriors? Rangers? Rangers have a signet which only gets rid of 3 types of conditions. What about Elementalists?

Oh and isn't bringing a condition/hex remover counter to your argument that any non monk class should only be doing damage? What's the difference between bringing a heal and a hex/condition remover then?

Neo-LD · Jun 21, 2005, 01:43 AM // 01:43

Self heals are used when necessary. In PvE if you have a monk light group, or if you have sustained high DP, you will thank yourslef for having one dang self heal.

As long as you dont use every single skill on your bar frequently, a self heal isnt sooooo bad. Dont use it unless

A) Your monks are dead
B) It becomes obvious your monks are overwhelmed
C) It becomes obvious that whatever minor damge you have sustianed is insignificant compared to other teammates needs, and you would like to just reomve that 75 damage sitting on your HP.

Of course, if you are in the situation of using all 8 of your skills frequently, then simply dont bring a self heal.

Spark · Jun 21, 2005, 02:07 AM // 02:07

Quote:

There are better self heals if used correctly.

Like what?

Any Ranger or Warrior Heal: Rangers and Warriors are not primary targets. Quite simply if you are getting hit something is wrong. (They suck or your team is dead)

Mesmer:

Ether Feast: At 12 Insp. this heals you for 120. Not bad....every 20 seconds. This won't keep you alive if your monk is out of energy or locked down. It won't save you from a damage spike because it has a 2 second casting time.

Necromancer: Has decent self healing...in blood magic. Not everyone is a blood necro, and they certainly shouldn't be.

Elementalist:

Aura of Restoration: Uh huh.

That's it for self heals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

Ummm and all classes have condition/hex removers? Warriors? Rangers? Rangers have a signet which only gets rid of 3 types of conditions. What about Elementalists?

Oh and isn't bringing a condition/hex remover counter to your argument that any non monk class should only be doing damage? What's the difference between bringing a heal and a hex/condition remover then?

Elementalists don't need to worry about conditions as it doesn't affect their damage. (Except for Dazed, which you don't see much of anyway.)

The Condition Machines (Warriors) should indeed bring condition removal if they can, but not all builds have access to it.

Neo-LD · Jun 21, 2005, 02:11 AM // 02:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spark

The Condition Machines (Warriors)

Hem hem. Rangers.

Eclair · Jun 21, 2005, 02:12 AM // 02:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

Ummm and all classes have condition/hex removers? Warriors? Rangers? Rangers have a signet which only gets rid of 3 types of conditions. What about Elementalists?

Oh and isn't bringing a condition/hex remover counter to your argument that any non monk class should only be doing damage? What's the difference between bringing a heal and a hex/condition remover then?

I don't think I've said anything in this thread regarding that all classes should be only doing damage.

There is a significant difference between hex/condition remover vs self heal. For example, if you're a warrior, blind, weakness, various mesmer hexes, etc will pretty much take you out of the battle. They'll cast it on you and just ignore you until they've got your monk killed. A self heal really isn't going to be of much help. However, with a condition/hex remover in your skill bar, you can get rid of that and go back to harrassing their casters/monk.

Elementalists and other casters should probably pack hex breaker if they're not using anything major as their secondary as opposed to aura of restoration. A Backfire will literally rip you apart and a petty self heal isn't going to save you.

The thing is, warriors and rangers are generally targetted last, so bringing a self heal isn't going to help when they're beating on your casters.

Spark · Jun 21, 2005, 02:30 AM // 02:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

Hem hem. Rangers.

I wasn't very clear. Warriors are the ones targeted with the most conditions, because it affects them most (namely Blind and Weakness)

Aalric · Jun 21, 2005, 11:12 AM // 11:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kishin

No, if a Monk can't get their timing right, they're a bad Monk, and if they can't heal, they're a Protection Monk (where the same issues arise ie. If you can't time a Protective Spirit right, you need to work on that) or a Smiter (In which case their role is entirely different). .

You DO NOT need to be able to heal yourself whenever you feel like it, and honestly, you aren't capable of it. As Spark pointed out, doing your job and shutting down/killing the enemy damage dealers goes a whole lot more to taking the pressure off a monk. Furthermore, there is the possibility that a monk will go to heal you just as you activate your self heal, and then congratulations, you've caused your Monk to waste energy, which is a capital offense.

I did not mean that you should become the party monk. I meant that if the need arises, you should heal (cast healing breeze or something). Monks can't do everything, and there is nothing wrong with healing once in a while. And nothing is gained by pointing fingers and saying, "Well, he's a bad monk". The fact is, your party's dead and you could have stopped it.

Myodato · Jun 21, 2005, 12:09 PM // 12:09

It all comes down to playing to strengths. Yes, every party member should have a way of surviving without 100% monk supervision, but that does not necessarily have to mean self healing. A Ranger's evasion skills will keep his health a lot higher than Troll Unguent will, and have additional benefits. A Mesmer casting using Distortion and Illusion of Weakness will have time to watch the Mesmer next to him using Ether Feast die and ressurect him before he goes down himself. An Elementalist using Armour of Earth or Mist will survive longer than one using Aura of Restoration.

And of course, using these takes the pressure off a Monk just as self healing would.

Basically Monk healing > any other class healing

Any class other than monk (or maybe necro) defense skills > their healing skills.

Neo-LD · Jun 21, 2005, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Whirling Defense is good put no way is it better than monk healing.

Barz · Jun 21, 2005, 01:43 PM // 13:43

I bring self heal in the pve game. I bring rebirth in the pvp game but use the skill that gives em an extra 280 ht points if I find I am closing on death. It sometimes works and sometimes only keeps me alive just long enough to finish off my foe. I also found Warriors cunning is a big help in warrior vs warrior or warrior vs ranger battles.

Aalric · Jun 21, 2005, 01:46 PM // 13:46

I am verry sorry. I have totally misunderstood. I thought this was about PvE, not PvP. Please disregard all earlier posts by me in this thread.

fleeb · Jun 21, 2005, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barz

... but use the skill that gives em an extra 280 ht points if I find I am closing on death.

Divine Intervention, I think, is the skill you're alluding to.

arnansnow · Jun 21, 2005, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Divine Intervention is the most annoying skill that white mantle priests and such have, it gives them a third of their life back from dieing.

Spark · Jun 21, 2005, 05:18 PM // 17:18

As a general hint: Use Restore Life and not Rebirth. Rebirth eats all your mana, gives your ally 0 AND Blackout's him. Restore Life brings him back with less HPs but having energy makes him usefull.